What I find even more interesting is the fact that recent literature never mentions those who disassociate and how they are to be treated. It seems like Watchtower is very embarrassed about how they treat those who resign and are unwilling to leave a record of it in print.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
-
9
Shunning... the thing jdubs don't speak of
by freemindfade instanding in the back now during the wt study.
looking ahead i find it comical paragraph 14.
"...you know how disfellowshipped ones are to be treated.
-
-
-
5
God, Love, and Marriage vs. WTBTS dogma - when this one scripture is so plain....!
by Muddy Waters ingot to thinking about this the other day.... you know how the wts uses a scripture from ecclesiastes (ecc.4:12) to say how important it is to have jehovah in your marriage -- that a two-fold cord is easily broken or pulled apart, but a "three-fold cord is not easily broken".
they then go on to define exactly who and what jehovah is and what exactly this love & marital arrangement means and how you properly show and demonstrate it, and blah blah blah and all the things jehovah (through his organization) says are so necessary and important for a happy marriage (from their special bias and agenda, the preaching work!
- and meeting attendance & preparation, and studying the bible together and the husband taking the lead, and all that jw filler which they define and obligate for others to do -- they define every term and behavior and expectation to the nth degree.. then it occurred to me, that there's that scripture which says: "god is love.".
-
-
Island Man
"You don't need all the religious rigamarol and trapping and defining and telling you what to do. Most people know what love means and how you show it. Most people know the right thing to do and how to treat each other with kindness, respect, love, etc. (unless you're a psychopath or have some serious issues & problems!)"
The JW response to that would be something like:
"Only Jehovah's people demonstrate true love. The world does not know what true love is because one cannot exhibit true love if he doesn't know and live by Jehovah's righteous standards. There is no true love to be found outside of Jehovah's organization."
-
34
Tax-exempt Status of Churches and the Gay Marriage Decision
by lambsbottom init will be interesting to see what will happen with the "beloved" 501c3 tax exempt status which the churches hold so dearly onto.
the first-century christians met in homes.
they did not have exemption from taxes to the governments.
-
-
Island Man
"To get married at a KH, you have to be a good standing JW. You can't just walk in off the streets and say you want to be married at a KH. If they are still allowed to disfellowship you, then they could DF a gay person. Then they couldn't get married due to the good standing JW rule."
Contrary to your claim, I can think of a scenario where this could be an issue. Two gay JWs can be in good standing if they're not practicing homosexuals and live decent lives as JWs. Imagine if these two gay JWs are pioneers and secretly dated each other without any homosexual acts taking place. Then these two gay JWs approach the elders to get married. The only basis for the elders denying them would be the fact that they are against gay marriage. It might be an unlikely scenario. But I can see - I'm anxiously waiting and longing to see - two gay awake JWs doing this to expose Watchtower!
-
34
Tax-exempt Status of Churches and the Gay Marriage Decision
by lambsbottom init will be interesting to see what will happen with the "beloved" 501c3 tax exempt status which the churches hold so dearly onto.
the first-century christians met in homes.
they did not have exemption from taxes to the governments.
-
-
Island Man
I think that if the US Government started requiring churches that marry heterosexuals to also marry homosexuals then Watchtower would issue a new policy to the effect that henceforth, the organization no longer will be involved in any way shape or form in the carrying out of marriage ceremonies. They will say that the kingdom hall is a place of worship and instruction and not a marriage venue. They will say that Witnesses should make their own independent marriage arrangements, which can be in the form of a simple legal proceeding before a judge (but not in a church of christendom) attended by close friends. They will say that such a couple may choose to have an elder, who also happens to be a marriage officer, oversee the ceremony, and that on his own volition, he may choose to share scriptural advice on the subject of marriage, but that he would be acting on his own volition and is not to be construed as acting in the role as an elder of Jehovah's organization.
I predict this is what will happen if the US government requires churches that perform marriages to marry gay couples - Watchtower will simply opt out of involvement in marriages, period. Can the govt. force a church that gives religious reasons for not performing any marriages period, to perform gay marriages?
-
3
There's something very bizarre about Watchtower's use of the word pioneer.
by Island Man ini have researched the meaning of the word pioneer in a number of online references.
none of the meanings seem to match watchtower's use of the word.
the word refers to persons who are trailblazers; persons who are the first to settle new territory; persons who initiate some new field or technology.. jws' use of the term to refer to publishers who spend a long time preaching every month, does not in the slightest bit, match the definition.
-
-
Island Man
I have researched the meaning of the word pioneer in a number of online references. None of the meanings seem to match Watchtower's use of the word.
The word refers to persons who are trailblazers; persons who are the first to settle new territory; persons who initiate some new field or technology.
JWs' use of the term to refer to publishers who spend a long time preaching every month, does not in the slightest bit, match the definition.
Now I could see the word being used to refer to missionaries going to a land where there are no JWs, to start the preaching work there and eventually form the first congregation. The term pioneer would legitimately match such missionaries as they would be the first to establish the JW religion in that land.
But to call JWs who preach a specific high quota of hours per month, pioneers, is just blatantly dishonest. It's like they've essentially invented a completely new and unrelated meaning to an existing word in the English language!
What's the basis for Watchtower's use of the word pioneer in this way?
-
59
How are the JW's reacting to the new USA gay marriage laws?
by purrpurr inpersonally i think this is wonderful.
i have nothing against gay people and wish them only the best.. but of course i'm in a minority of one, the jw's around me are posting away on fb the most homophobic vitriol imaginable.
a lot of them are even saying that it's the start to armageddon!!.
-
-
Island Man
Be afraid AMIII! Be very afraid. For Arma-gay-don is coming any day now, in which you and the entire GB will be forced to wear tight pants on stage before a crowd of gay couples! ROFLOL. -
6
TedTheAtheist vs JW Circular Reasoning!
by Island Man inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpod4ctdwts
-
-
-
17
If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general ...
by Island Man inif you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of watchtower and jws in general then i'm sure this week's watchtower study (week of june 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts.
the study article (watchtower april 15, 2015, page 19: how real is your relationship with jehovah?
) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting jws.. the article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with jehovah:.
-
-
Island Man
Seems like me and OneFingerSalute posted thread on this week's study just about 5 minutes apart. lol. Here is OneFingerSalute's discussion of this week's study -
14
Observations About Today's WT Indoctrination
by OneFingerSalute inthis mornings wt was pretty amazing in it's totally asinine application of the term "relationship".. it started right off the bat asserting that jehovah is only interested in a relationship with "you" after "you" put forth the effort to get close to him.
par 14 said to be specific in prayer so you could see "subtle" answers.
par 15 then directly contradicted par.
-
-
Island Man
I just started a thread on this very subject. But yours covers more paragraphs than mine. I became exasperated with Watchtower's stupidity by paragraph 5. lol. If you don't mind, I'll put a link to this thread on mine. -
17
If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general ...
by Island Man inif you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of watchtower and jws in general then i'm sure this week's watchtower study (week of june 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts.
the study article (watchtower april 15, 2015, page 19: how real is your relationship with jehovah?
) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting jws.. the article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with jehovah:.
-
-
Island Man
If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general then I'm sure this week's Watchtower study (week of June 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts. The study article (Watchtower April 15, 2015, page 19: How Real Is Your Relationship With Jehovah?) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting JWs.
The article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with Jehovah:
How real is your personal relationship with Jehovah? Would you like to strengthen it? James 4:8 tells you how you can do that: "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you." Note that this is a two-way process. * [footnote: A relationship has been defined as the way two individuals feel and behave toward each other. Thus, both are actively involved.] As we take steps to draw close to God, he takes reciprocating action toward us. This interaction, frequently repeated, progressively strengthens our relationship with Jehovah. As a result, that relationship becomes very real to us.
The article then goes on to say in subsequent paragraphs that individual worshipers communicate with Jehovah through prayer. Now bearing in mind the point in the footnote highlighted above, how does Jehovah communicate with the worshiper - how is he actively involved in the communication aspect of the relationship? Paragraph 3 says:
And you allow Jehovah to talk to you, as it were, when you regularly read his written Word and meditate on it.
"Allow" Jehovah to talk to you - "as it were" ?!!! Oh the idiocy! Jehovah is actively involved by doing absolutely nothing! The worshiper does all the work! What kind of a relationship is that? Aren't both parties supposed to be actively involved in order for there to be a relationship? And yet Watchtower is essentially contradicting itself by showing that the worshiper is the one actually doing all the work.
By way of comparison, imagine a mother with 2 children whose father live far away and whom they have never seen or spoken to orally. The mother tells the children that their father loves them and provide for them. The mother shows them a letter that the father wrote to the family as a whole years ago before the children were even born and which does not refer to the mother or any of the children by name. She encourages the children to write to their father regularly to an address she gave them, but the father never, ever responds directly to any of their letters. To get his response, the mother claims, they have to read the original letter he wrote to the family years ago and meditate on how it applies to them individually. Now, who in their right mind would claim that this father is having a close relationship with his children?
And in this whole process of the worshiper talking to Jehovah and imagining that Jehovah responds to him, "as it were", when he reads the bible, the worshiper comes to develop a relationship with Jehovah? The relationship becomes real to him? You don't say! Who would have thought that someone could ever delusionally grow to regard an imaginary friend as being real due to regular repetition of behavior designed to reinforce the delusion? Such a thing could never happen, right? LOL.
Look at the utter idiocy of paragraph 5:
For example, read and meditate on Jesus' words to "stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth." If you feel that you are already focusing your life on Kingdom interests, you sense Jehovah's commendation. On the other hand, if you see a need to simplify your life and to focus more on Kingdom interests, Jehovah has alerted you to an area where you can work at drawing closer to him. - Matt 6:19,20.
"If you feel", "if you see"? So let me get this straight: Jehovah's communication to individual JWs is actually the individual JW's own imperfect and fallible feelings about his own "spirituality" in light of what he reads? So Jehovah speaks to the individual JW by the individual JW listening to his own treacherous and imperfect heart? This is utter . . . I'm at a loss for words. Let's expose the idiocy of this paragraph by just changing a few words:
For example, read and meditate on Jesus' words to "stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth." If you [are self-sparing and imagine in your heart] that you are already focusing your life on Kingdom interests, you [can imagine in your heart] Jehovah's commendation. On the other hand, if you [are unbalanced and overzealous and thus imagine] a need to simplify your life and to focus more on Kingdom interests, Jehovah has alerted you to an area where you can work at drawing closer to him. - Matt 6:19,20.
So Jehovah is reduced to being just a sock-puppet controlled by the peculiar, imperfect disposition and inclination of the individual JW. Way to go Watchtower! You're certainly revealing your great wisdom and insight - not!!
Paragraph 12 and 13 reveals more idiotic fallacious reasoning where they try to discount the fact that prayer is purely a psychological phenomenon by pointing to Jesus apparent conviction that his Father heard his prayers - which is recorded in the same book that promotes prayers! Talk about appeal to emotion (conviction) and circular reasoning! By such idiotic reasoning, if you meet a man who is utterly convinced that he has an invisible friend who listens to all that he says then that man must truly have such an invisible friend listening to him, right? Because why would he have that conviction if it weren't true? lol.
And lets not forget to mention that idiotic fallacious reasoning often brought out in comments that Jehovah answers prayers by the printing of Watchtower articles that addresses the specific problems that individual JWs have. Chee, with 8 million JWs worldwide, what are the odds that some will be suffering from depression, or marital problems, or anxiety, or [insert illness or problem that is bound to exist in a pool of 8 million people, here]? Furthermore, what are the odds that Watchtower will decide to write an article on such a issue given its existence? And given that all JWs receive all Watchtower literature, what are the odds that some JWs somewhere is going to get an articles that happens to address his particular problem? JWs have go to be some of the most mindless people on the planet!